andrewducker | Gender Test

I felt that you were actually complaining that I had responded to your complaint

My complaint was actually about this: "Not something that they need to take into account for a mass market bit of fun". Don't they? Really? I think they do. And I'll complain that they're not. Why aren't you complaining too? It amazes me that people will complain about inconsistencies of grammar (just giving an example, not saying that you do this) but not about this kind of thing.

But I can see why [the snowflake option] piled insult on injury, and I'll try to avoid that one in future.

Oh, no, I know what the snowflake option's about. That's not what piled insult on injury, though. It was the, "And I'll feel free to respond to it depending on my mood at the time." bit. That's the, "You know, I don't have to care about this stuff. Maybe see if you can get me to care another time." part I was objecting to in my last comment.

I do feel somewhat offended that you feel I was going to shut you up or censor you in some way

I didn't and don't feel this. When I talk about power, I'm not talking about your power as the owner of this journal. I'm talking about your position as a person who is fortunate enough not to have their gender denied. If all the people in that situation continue to do nothing for transgender people, transgender people will remain discriminated against. That's how the "tyrrany of the majority" works.

Why aren't you complaining too?
Because I don't feel it's necessary. I know that you do, but I don't feel that I do as well. Yes, I am privileged in my ability to not complain about this, but the lack of every gender option in a silly AI test quiz is so far down my priority list that it's just not visible. I totally understand that it's much higher up yours, of course.

Whereas, say, the trans Stonewall boycott earlier this year felt much more important to me - and something that was worth spreading information about. Also, the "people in that situation continue to do nothing" (where "that" clearly means "your" in that case) is also insulting - considering that you don't know of any personal history I have with trans issues.

I know this is a hot button issue for you - and that not feeling supported makes you angry - but I feel like you're lashing out at the moment.

Yes, I am privileged in my ability to not complain about this

Indeed! Please know that in a conversation with a trans person, they are painfully aware of this the entire time. It's not necessary to mention it like you did earlier in the conversation in the same way as it's not necessary to mention to a person who just had a nasty breakup about quite how awesome your relationship to your partner is.

Sorry, what I meant by "if the people in that situation continue to do nothing" was, "imagine that all the people in that situation do nothing and continue to do nothing. Nothing changes. Hence, they should not do nothing". I don't think - and didn't mean to imply - that you do nothing.

I know this is a hot button issue for you - and that not feeling supported makes you angry - but I feel like you're lashing out at the moment.

Angry people do that, you know. :)

Yeah, I know :->

I'm painfully aware that it's painfully hard for you to deal with this kind of thing - and I don't think many people deal well when they're in pain.

Hang on, how am I not dealing well? I'm angry, yes, but I hardly think it's unwarranted. And I could be having this conversation with you in a much angrier way. I find this comment very patronising. What on earth is wrong with being angry at being told I don't exist?

Sorry - it wasn't intended to mean that you were being inappropriate, or that I objected to your anger.

I tend to lump any kind of loud emotion as not "dealing well" - it doesn't mean that it's not an appropriate response - just that it's not being 100% logical. If someone is crying over losing a relative then that would be both "not dealing well with life" and "perfectly appropriate". Does that make sense? It really wasn't supposed to be a negative statement.

I would consider being 100% logical as not dealing well. :) Maybe I can afford to be 100% logical about something if it's happening 1,000 miles away and I'm only looking at it through a table of numbers, but hey, none of us are. 100% logic's not appropriate.

Anyway, this is a distraction. There are two things you haven't said yet in this conversation.

1. "Sorry for rubbing your face in the fact that I have cis privilege and you don't."

2. "Now I know how to avoid doing this in the future to other trans people and will take steps to avoid doing it."

If you don't hold those opinions, let's talk about that. What's the gap between the opinions you hold and those ones? I'd like to persuade you that the opinions above are the correct ones to hold.

I'll get back to you on that tomorrow. It's 11pm and I have builders turning up at 8am.

I'll re-read the whole conversation, make sure I understand it when I have a working brain, and then try to do the right thing :->

Builders? Hee. Good luck with that!

Re-read the thread just now - and I think I see where the problem is. If I can back track and lay things out, because it's spread over oodles of comments at the moment:

I said (paraphrasing) - they don't need to take cis-gender into account in every internet quiz.
You said: that cisgender people are faced with this all the time and "Which times should they object, do you think, and which shouldn't they?"
I said you could object to anything you liked - and that I'd respond to whatever I liked as well.
And this upset you, because you felt I was rubbing my cis-privilege in your face.

And I can see why you'd feel that - because I was being somewhat snarky. I felt that, as you were implying that you needed permission to complain, or that I was asking you to stop, and I was clearly not doing so, that what you were actually objecting to me responding to you - which felt like you trying to silence me in my own journal. And thus I was snarkier than I should have been, which I apologise for. I wasn't actually trying to say that I'd abandon the conversation if I felt like it - I was saying that if you comment in my journal then I will engage with what you're saying rather than just letting you vent.

But I can see where the misunderstanding came from - and I can assure you that that was not my intent.

So, yes, I'm sorry that I came across that way, and I'll try to avoid this in future (although I'm sure it will happen again).

Classification and discussion win! Thank you. :)

Sorry - it wasn't intended to mean that you were being inappropriate, or that I objected to your anger.

Oh, and thank you. :)

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