Screaming Queens at 10 O'Clock

[andrewducker]

I went to see The Producers a few days ago, and came out of it feeling remarkably unsure of my feelings.

Not about the movie itself (it's a competent filming of a fun musical stage-show.  Worth seeing, with some wonderful moments.) but about its portrayal of gay people.

The director of the musical within the musical is gay.  And screamingly camp.  As is his "live-in" entourage.  All of whom delight in dressing up as members of the Village People and prancing around.  Except for the lesbian, obviously, who wears a shirt and is dumpy.

In other words, they're remarkably obvious caricatures.  Who are then used to make jokes about gay sex and campness.

Should I be offended by this?

I mean, I'm not gay.  And I know there _are_ remarkably camp people out there.  And also butch lesbians in shirts.

But if the caricatures had been similarly broad takes on, say, black people - we'd have been watching blacked-up white people doing a modern Black and White Minstrel Show, and a huge fuss would have been made.

So I feel like I should have been offended, but I'm not entirely sure.  Anyone else got a take on it?

Comments

[octopoid-horror.livejournal.com]

I can't remember where I read this, it was something recent. But you can do a simple test.

Anything with stereotypes, or jokes about a particular subculture/racial group/religious group.. whatever...

List a few different groups in your head, and ask yourself if you'd be comfortable with those jokes being made about -them-.

So if you wouldn't be comfortable with that kind of stereotyping of, to continue your example, black people, then it's pretty damn clear how repulsive it must have been.

[dougs.livejournal.com]

There are also broad caricatures of Nazis, and of rich little old ladies, and of female office assistants, and of accountants. None of which warranted mention.

[themongkey.livejournal.com]

My take is that it's pointless getting wound up about stereotyping - of any kind - in a film like The Producers.

[imaget.livejournal.com]

I felt the same way about Memoirs of a Geisha, which isn't as obvious in it's perpetuation of stereotypes, but I think it's just as bad.
I guess I've come to terms with the fact that I should just follow my conscience. My conscience says no to Memoirs, but yes to Will & Grace.
I wonder sometimes if it's the thousand such little hypocrisies and betrayals of self that make us human.

[wolflady26.livejournal.com]

I think the concept of "[feeling] like I should have been offended" is somewhere between "ludicrous" and "encapsulating all that is wrong with the world". It's one thing to be sensitive to the feelings of members of groups to which you do not belong, and another to pretend to a feeling of outrage because you feel you should.

[flickgc.livejournal.com]

I saw the play of it, and utterly loathed it, for largely the same reason.

[thishardenedarm.livejournal.com]

well i didn't get that far, walked out after 20 minutes because it was just the worst (20 minutes of) film i had seen in a long time, i wasnt alone, half the cinema left too. Maybe we all had the original in our head, maybe we couldnt stand the ACTING the MUGGING and the completely pointless and dull added musical numbers, ther one I whinced through taking ten minutes of my life and several nearly naked women to say one sentence: "i want to be a producer". I will never get thiose minutes back. Me, i had the genuinely funny original in my head and felt like someone had dug up a dear relative and fucked him with a meat grinder. Lampooning the queens comes as no surprise.

Oh and dont get me started on Will and Fucking Grace. Name me one mainstream show that doesnt portray its gay charcters as GAY. Name me one show that has moved us on from "are you being served" because i must have missed it.

[missedith01.livejournal.com]

Hmm. "I feel like I should have been offended" ... actually sounds to me like you were mildly offended but you're wondering whether you should have been. Which would make more sense ... because I think it's hard to feel offence due to reasoned argument that one should - isn't it a bit like humour in that respect?

[coffeeinhell.livejournal.com]

I didn't have that reaction to The Producers mainly, I think because I've been close to so very many over-the-top gay men in my life that, frankly, the caricature was broad but not necessarily out of the realm of possibility. It tickled me, because the two actors are so good and, well, I've KNOWN men like that -- the movie just dialed it up to 11. They were my favorite part of a not-so-hot film.

I've had a similar reaction as you describe, though, to watching the animated version of "The Boondocks." I love the comic strip and the TV cartoon is quite funny -- but, as I said to a black friend recently, I find myself wondering how I'd respond to it if I was, oh, black. Because unlike the strip, the TV version is very heavily into the whole "niggers is crazy" thing, to the point of being positively insulting ... in the name of satire.

His response? That yeah, it's too much nigga-this and nigga-that and he finds it obnoxious.

[laserboy.livejournal.com]

Urgh. I'll be avoiding that then. Thanks for the warning. Yeah, I'd find it pretty offensive. I found 'In & Out' appalling and don't watch 'Will & Grace'.

That said, regarding 'Are you Being Served?'. The humour with that character is that, according to the actor at least, he's not actually gay and it's playing around with peoples assumptions. I actually quite like that. Whether that's just hypocrisy I dunno. :)

Someone else asked about gay characters in shows who aren't just GAY, and I think the only show that comes to mind is 'Six Feet Under'. It's preachy at times, but at least characters are allowed a degree of humanity and depth.