i'm the weirdest little mix of discretion and wild abandon sometimes.
i think i'd rather see someone naked in a non-leering prancing about kind of way than see half the really offensive teeshirts i've had the displeasure of reading.
I don't think that's weird at all - that's more or less my attitude.
The naked form shouldn't be offensive - it's only conditioning that makes us think it is.
However, some clothing is overtly offensive, and unneccesary. Of course, as ever, offensiveness is subjective. I'd have preferred if the last one was "People should be discouraged from trying to deliberately offend people with their clothing", instead of "Offensive clothing shouldn't be allowed". I just don't think its necessary to antagonise people by wearing t-shirts that say "Fuck you", or whatever.
I'm falling on the fence between wanting to ban it, and not wanting to enforce my opinion on others. Maybe have designated offensive t-shirt zones? ;+)
It's like, when we were in the gardens and those neds walked by with their ghetto-blaster, offending everyone around. I don't think you *should* be able to do that, but I don't want to enforce that. I just wish I could rely on everyone to have more respect for others.
I don't know - I'm all for a cross-section of say, 1000 people, having to veto any t-shirt that has a picture and-or slogan on it. Deciding by committee seems fair.
And deciding who gets to define 'offensive' is also a tricky question.
I was thinking that, too. I mean, what's offensive clothing? Is it only t-shirts with offensive phrases and/or pictures? Is it a leather tanktop with holes cut in it so nipples peak out? Is it tight miniskirts?
If offensive = overtly revealing, is that better or worse than just running around naked?
I was going to ask about the "offensive clothing", I mean it could mean insulting t-shirts, which I have no problem with at all, but then that isnt offensive, at least not to me. Clothes that I do find offensive, such as bum bags, shellsuits, etc by default offend me as I find them offensive.
It seems to depend on whether you see nakedness as overtly sexual.
If nakedness isn't sexual, then it's not offensive (well, generally) and therefore easier to put up with than offensive t-shirts.
I ought to say that I have numerous offensive t-shirts. But I tend to wear them to places where they'll be appreciated (not that there are many places where "Zen as Fuck" t-shirts are appreciated).
i don't have a problem with someone being naked as long as they're not waggling at me or anything. unfortunately, i think that society (at least here) isn't well-equipped to handle nudity, because of the way we treat sex. it's sensational and shocking, but everywhere. it colors our view on everything. it seems like nudists are labelled deviants, hedonists, attention-seeking, promiscuous, etc.
I was going to write more to wolflady, but it fits here better.
I totally agree - it's society that is the problem. People are conditioned now to think that the naked human form, by and of itself, is sexual. Which, of course, it can be - but not when a bunch of people are frying themselves on a nudist-beach!
I like clothing - it's protective, it keeps us warm, and frankly, it is our own personal 'plumage' - it's (part of) how we show off to those we're attracted to. But I still think it's a shame that people can't divest themselves of it if they want to. If I'm chilling at my PC in the nudie, I'm not trying to be overt, or sexual, or even offensive. I'm not seeking attention. I'm merely being comfortable.
We are, after all, the only 'animal' that feels ashamed of our nudity.
i love clothes and making my hair do extraordinary things, using a bit of color to make my face look sultry, otherworldly natural...... i like to paint my toenails, lift and separate, highlight, contour and exfoliate.
i've dyed everything, tattooed, had holes punched in my ears.......
it's great amounts of fun. but there are days i just want to walk around nakee.
It's not only the association with sexuality, though, it's a lot of things. Like hygiene. Do you really want to sit on a non-airconditioned bus seat in the middle of the summer naked, where 20 other naked people have sat that day? Eww! I mean, pure sweat is bad enough (though if you're clothed, you have another layer of protection against it), but if everyone is naked, there's a higher chance of being more than just sweat on that chair.
Not to mention that it is a lot easier to look attractive with clothing than without. It's a lot easier to overlook a lot of flaws with clothing than without. Not that everyone has to look perfect, of course, but with clothing I can make the choice of whether I want people to see the birthmark on my thigh or not. With clothing, you have a lot more privacy.
Not to mention, it's easier for most men and women to move faster with clothing.
There are a heck of a lot of reasons that go far beyond the (slightly dismissive) one of "Oh, people don't like nudity because society has made them so frightened of sex."
Hey - I'm a bit behind, 'cos I didn't get near my PC last night.
I'm not sure the argument is for clothes/against clothes - it's for choice. Even if we allow that there would be times when clothes are necessary for protection (I did mention that elsewhere), there are still plenty of times when people could remove them without any adverse effects. Say, in Princes St gardens in Edinburgh, at lunchtime when Andy and I go. Or, for a better example, in your own back garden. Fact of the matter is, people can't - and for no logical reason.
I did think of the "clothing makes you attractive" argument last night. That's a fact. I find it far, far sexier when a woman is wearing clothing that shows glimpses of what's underneath, than I would if she was nekkid. Clothes just seem to keep getting sexier, which is fine by me!
So, you have a birthmark on your thigh? Is it in a funky shape? ;+)
I think it's also a matter of choice - my choice to have other people's nekkidness displayed to me or not! Right now, if I want to see someone naked and vice versa, I can propose that in a mutually acceptable fashion, without forcing that upon the other person. Otherwise, the other person's choice - to dangle their naked genetalia in my face if I'm sitting on a bus and they're standing, for instance - is forced upon me.
On the other hand, I'm not at all opposed to something like a nude beach, where if I go there, I do it in full acceptance that I can be nude, and other people will be. That's a different situation from walking through a city park, though.
And yes, I have a birthmark on my thigh, and I'm actually not at all worried about people seeing it. But it was just an example of something non-sexual and non-fat related that theoretically, someone might want to hide. ;) It's kind of oval, and looks like I missed a spot with suntan lotion, except that I never tan that deeply.
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i think i'd rather see someone naked in a non-leering prancing about kind of way than see half the really offensive teeshirts i've had the displeasure of reading.
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The naked form shouldn't be offensive - it's only conditioning that makes us think it is.
However, some clothing is overtly offensive, and unneccesary. Of course, as ever, offensiveness is subjective. I'd have preferred if the last one was "People should be discouraged from trying to deliberately offend people with their clothing", instead of "Offensive clothing shouldn't be allowed". I just don't think its necessary to antagonise people by wearing t-shirts that say "Fuck you", or whatever.
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It's like, when we were in the gardens and those neds walked by with their ghetto-blaster, offending everyone around. I don't think you *should* be able to do that, but I don't want to enforce that. I just wish I could rely on everyone to have more respect for others.
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Slightly offensive t-shirts are ok with most people, very offensive t-shirts aren't.
And deciding who gets to define 'offensive' is also a tricky question.
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You can organise it, of course....
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I was thinking that, too. I mean, what's offensive clothing? Is it only t-shirts with offensive phrases and/or pictures? Is it a leather tanktop with holes cut in it so nipples peak out? Is it tight miniskirts?
If offensive = overtly revealing, is that better or worse than just running around naked?
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If nakedness isn't sexual, then it's not offensive (well, generally) and therefore easier to put up with than offensive t-shirts.
I ought to say that I have numerous offensive t-shirts. But I tend to wear them to places where they'll be appreciated (not that there are many places where "Zen as Fuck" t-shirts are appreciated).
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i don't have a problem with someone being naked as long as they're not waggling at me or anything. unfortunately, i think that society (at least here) isn't well-equipped to handle nudity, because of the way we treat sex. it's sensational and shocking, but everywhere. it colors our view on everything. it seems like nudists are labelled deviants, hedonists, attention-seeking, promiscuous, etc.
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I totally agree - it's society that is the problem. People are conditioned now to think that the naked human form, by and of itself, is sexual. Which, of course, it can be - but not when a bunch of people are frying themselves on a nudist-beach!
I like clothing - it's protective, it keeps us warm, and frankly, it is our own personal 'plumage' - it's (part of) how we show off to those we're attracted to. But I still think it's a shame that people can't divest themselves of it if they want to. If I'm chilling at my PC in the nudie, I'm not trying to be overt, or sexual, or even offensive. I'm not seeking attention. I'm merely being comfortable.
We are, after all, the only 'animal' that feels ashamed of our nudity.
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i love clothes and making my hair do extraordinary things, using a bit of color to make my face look sultry, otherworldly natural...... i like to paint my toenails, lift and separate, highlight, contour and exfoliate.
i've dyed everything, tattooed, had holes punched in my ears.......
it's great amounts of fun. but there are days i just want to walk around nakee.
no subject
Not to mention that it is a lot easier to look attractive with clothing than without. It's a lot easier to overlook a lot of flaws with clothing than without. Not that everyone has to look perfect, of course, but with clothing I can make the choice of whether I want people to see the birthmark on my thigh or not. With clothing, you have a lot more privacy.
Not to mention, it's easier for most men and women to move faster with clothing.
There are a heck of a lot of reasons that go far beyond the (slightly dismissive) one of "Oh, people don't like nudity because society has made them so frightened of sex."
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I'm not sure the argument is for clothes/against clothes - it's for choice. Even if we allow that there would be times when clothes are necessary for protection (I did mention that elsewhere), there are still plenty of times when people could remove them without any adverse effects. Say, in Princes St gardens in Edinburgh, at lunchtime when Andy and I go. Or, for a better example, in your own back garden. Fact of the matter is, people can't - and for no logical reason.
I did think of the "clothing makes you attractive" argument last night. That's a fact. I find it far, far sexier when a woman is wearing clothing that shows glimpses of what's underneath, than I would if she was nekkid. Clothes just seem to keep getting sexier, which is fine by me!
So, you have a birthmark on your thigh? Is it in a funky shape? ;+)
no subject
On the other hand, I'm not at all opposed to something like a nude beach, where if I go there, I do it in full acceptance that I can be nude, and other people will be. That's a different situation from walking through a city park, though.
And yes, I have a birthmark on my thigh, and I'm actually not at all worried about people seeing it. But it was just an example of something non-sexual and non-fat related that theoretically, someone might want to hide. ;) It's kind of oval, and looks like I missed a spot with suntan lotion, except that I never tan that deeply.