Will nobody think of the children?

[andrewducker]

[Poll #1658780]

context

Another data point

Comments

[broin.livejournal.com]

Another data point. Two lovely friends who are raising their daughter (aged 5) to think critically. So when she asked what a church was, he explained 'It's a building where some people go to talk to a friend they believe in. I don't believe I have a friend like that, but grandma does. You can believe it if you want to'.

This seems fine to me.

But the fairy example in my other post sounded repellant. Up there with 'be good or you'll go to hell'. It's not encouraging a sense of wonder, it's encouraging slavish fear.

[gonzo21.livejournal.com]

The more Truth a child is exposed to, the more depressed and miserable they will be.

[drainboy.livejournal.com]

In your data point, Newton's laws of physics are a lie-to-children. Based on that you need a third option in your poll of "absolutely necessary as a basis for learning" :)

[recycled-sales.livejournal.com]

Lying to children can be brilliant fun, but it depends entirely on how you do it and what topics you cover. It's also dependant on their age.

Best example would be Connie's little sister. When I first met Connie's family, her wee sister wasn't even into double digits of age. It was fun to make up silly answers to questions (what job do you have) purely to be friendly and create a joke. However, if I had to explain to a child about 'why do people have to die' or something serious like that, I'd avoid invoking any kind of benevolent sky gods.

Funnily enough, I'm thinking of your post about tomatoes and how that relates to absolute definitions of 'lies' or 'no lies'. If it's true that it's important to treat young minds with respect, then that can include being happy to involve them in jokes.

[makyo.livejournal.com]

It's a sometimes unacceptable and sometimes noble tradition with a long history.

I think you have to judge each case on its own merits, and decide whether it will cause lasting harm to the child's educational or psychological development. So if a particular statement causes the child to stop questioning the nature of reality (especially if it's accompanied by the sort of "this is absolutely true, and it's naughty to even question it" rider that a lot of religions tend to pepper their doctrine with) then that's bad. But if it sparks off discussions about the nature of truth, the place of stories within the world, and so forth, all the while helping the child to feel good about themselves, then I'd say that's probably a good thing. ("Does Santa Claus exist?" "Well, that depends on what you mean by 'exist' - what do you think?")

Then there's the educational "lies to children" that Ian Stewart and Jack Cohen discuss in their books The Collapse of Chaos and Figments of Reality (as well as the three Science of Discworld books). These are strictly untrue statements of the form "electrons, protons and neutrons are like tiny billiard balls" which act as a kind of educational scaffolding to enable the children/students to get from ignorance to understanding where the journey can't be done in a single step. This is essentially unavoidable in a lot of cases: if you start out by telling a 6-year-old kid about electron orbitals and the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle then they're going to shut down pretty quickly. Whereas if you say "everything is made up of molecules, which are like clusters of little billiard balls called atoms" and then a bit later say "actually it's a bit more complicated than that: the atoms themselves are sort of made of smaller marbles called protons and neutrons, with even smaller things called electrons whizzing round them" then that works a lot better, and you can subsequently introduce them to quantum mechanics with a lower (but still nonzero) probability of them running away screaming in terror.

[eatsoylentgreen.livejournal.com]

I think you'll find that kids are hard to break.

[eatsoylentgreen.livejournal.com]

I think it's important to lie regularly to children, and make some of them completely ridiculous, so kids understand that lying is fun, and not everything is to be believed.

But I'd probably have my children taken from me from the social worker.

[nmg.livejournal.com]

I haven't told the garklet that Father Christmas doesn't exist, but then I haven't categorically claimed that he does either. I have, however, tried to give him sufficient information and ask him sufficient questions that I hope he could work things out by himself.

For example, we've talked about how Father Christmas is predominantly something for British children, and that children in other countries expect analogues (Weihnachtsmann for the Germans, Sinterklass for the Dutch, Pere Noel for the French, and so on), and have discussed the similarities and differences between them. I've asked him how big Father Christmas's sleigh needs to be to fit in all the presents, and how he knows who gets which present.

[lizzie-and-ari.livejournal.com]

Ooh I would love to see another poll cross-referencing this poll with

Do you have your own children?

and also were you:
Lied to as a child and you think this is a good thing
Lied to as a child and you think this (mostly) is a bad thing
Not lied to as a child and you think this is a good thing
Not lied to as a child and you think this (mostly) is a bad thing

xx

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

If you child doesn't know better than to trust *everything* you say by the time they're 6, you're doing it wrong. Properly raised children are suspicious, can tell if something sounds wonky, and know to look into incredible claims with a basic sense of incredulity.

[octopoid-horror.livejournal.com]

I lied to Noah at the weekend. I told him that I was afraid of bugs.

He then informed me that bugs were cute and happy.

[elmyra.livejournal.com]

Shades of grey? ;-)

[momentsmusicaux.livejournal.com]

Ermmmmm it depends?

There's stuff I won't be telling Caractacus until she's old enough to ask. I think though I'd rather never actually lie to her though, if possible.