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andrewducker ([personal profile] andrewducker) wrote2010-07-21 12:00 pm
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[personal profile] zz 2010-07-23 06:19 am (UTC)(link)
Reading some more of the bill, there's a similar provision to the israeli lying-is-rape thing too.
consent is void if:
"(f) where B agrees or submits to the conduct because A induces B to agree or submit to the conduct by impersonating a person known personally to B, or"

wtf?

i'm also wondering what "recklessly" means in all of those definitions. apart from it seeming like it's criminalising clumsiness, how exactly does one "recklessly [touch] the vagina, anus or penis [with one's] mouth" as opposed to intentionally?

[identity profile] major-clanger.livejournal.com 2010-07-23 06:30 am (UTC)(link)
It's always been rape (certainly in England, I don't know about Scotland) if sex happens because A impersonates someone B is already having sex with. It's a bit different from the Israeli case, because with actual impersonation what is happening is that the victim's implied consent is being abused. (And if you don't believe it can happen, see the infamous case of R v Collins*).

The Israeli case is troubling because it's not a case of pretending to be someone who already has implied consent to sex, but of pretending to be someone so as to get consent in the first place, which is a much murkier and more dubious issue.

I imagine the 'reckless' point is to deal with attempted defences such as 'it was heavy petting and I accidentally went past second base'.

*Exactly which part of Mr Collins may have been technically inside the bedroom is a topic of much ribald speculation among law students introduced to this case.