Spoiler Discussion - (spoiler free)

[andrewducker]

In the last couple of days I've been in discussion with a couple of different people about spoilers. One of them about BSG season 2 (now two years old) and the other about HP:Half Blood Prince (now four years old), with them considering that as they'd experienced them years ago, they couldn't possibly be considered spoilers.

Which is the exact opposite of how I feel about it. Because there are movies I still haven't seen fronm the 1950s, where discussion of the twist in the tale would spoil the movie for me. And I'm very aware that the majority of people who go to see the new HP movie won't have read the book.

To me, spoilers are all about politeness. If you tell someone the end/twist of something they didn't know, and will possibly experience in the future, when they didn't want to know, then you've spoiled that experience for them. I remember the feeling of watching Empire Strikes Back and discovering that Han and Chewied were lovers. The shock and surprise at the moment of reveal was an integral part of the experience for me, and taking it away from people that haven't seen the movie yet is just plain rude.

Now, you can argue that it being years old, the chances that people on your friends list haven't seen Empire Strikes Back is low. Which is true if you're posting friends-only and have nobody under the age of 20 on your friends list. But it's not like the olden days, when a movie would appear, and then vanish again, when TV that had made the rounds was lost. Nowadays I can go out and buy box sets for TV made before I was born, and watch it entirely fresh. There are more hours of TV and movies out there than I have time to watch in my whole life, and the chances are that some will be watched years out of synch with their original release. And I'd really appreciate you not telling me the details before I do!

Obviously I consider all of the following to be spoilers. I'm curious whether you do too. If you don't then I'd love to know why...

[Poll #1430090]

Also: NO SPOILERS IN THE COMMENTS!

Comments

[matgb]

I agree with you, and add more to it. The end of Empire has been used as a joke on Radio 4's The Now Show more than once, and on mainstream entertainment TV shows. The line in and of itself is so well known that, while it's a plot point that was originally a reveal, is now just part of the cultural ethos. If it can be used as a joke on a mainstream comedy show it's too well known to be annoyed about.

[andrewducker]

Are you telling me what emotions I should feel?

Really?

[matgb]

Emotions aren't rational. You can be annoyed about something that it's completely irrational to be annoyed about, but recognition that it is irrational would be useful.

If it's considered well known enough for it to be usable as a joke on a flagship BBC comedy show, then it's just a generally known point.

At this point, as someone else has said, anyone that's reached 20ish that hasn't seen Empire is unlikely to want to or care. Same applies to the ending of Citizen Kane (and I watched the movie already knowing and didn't think it mattered at all, but then Kane isn't about the plot at all).

[andrewducker]

See, I disagree strongly with the last point. People change. People grow up liking one kind of thing and then decide they like something different. People get introduced to a new genre late on, and then go around devouring lots of it.

The point being that you can't make assumptions about what is going to spoil a movie for someone. Telling them that they shouldn't have their experiences spoiled by your actions sounds ridiculous to me. Either their experience was spoiled, or it was not. You telling them otherwise sounds like paternalism.

I'm happy to agree that _most_ people will have seen Empire, but three people have already commented on this post that they haven't. And you never know when they might decide that maybe their friends are right, and give it a go. Unless they've said "Go ahead, tell me how it ends." then I think that posting the end of the movie in a public place is rude.

[matgb]

But overall, Empire isn't about the ending--it's a mid point film, written as such, etc.

Now, if I were to write a post about Empire (which wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility), I would make sure to say at the top that I'd be discussing the plot and assume readers have seen it. But to write a post about Empire and not actually discuss the film at this stage when it's 30 years old would be a waste of my time.

A review on release shouldn't talk about such things, but a literary review on the film many years later would be remiss not to.

And the endings are important parts of the film, but if the film relied upon them for impact, it wouldn't be the damn fine film it actually is.

[andrewducker]

I would make sure to say at the top that I'd be discussing the plot and assume readers have seen it.

So you'd be posting spoiler warnings. Which is all anyone's been asking for :->

[0olong.livejournal.com]

For what it's worth, I'm in the position of still not having seen Citizen Kane, though I've been meaning to for years and years. Somehow it just never comes up as a film I might watch with people. Maybe it wouldn't matter if I knew how it ends, but the fact is that right now I haven't a clue and on the whole I'm glad I don't - is this surprising?