andrewducker (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
andrewducker) wrote2009-04-15 11:43 am
andrewducker) wrote2009-04-15 11:43 am
Welcome to the 21st century.
I can understand why there's a stereotype of feminists as humourless.
I mean, if you're used to being able to make jokes about horrible things happening to women and then a group of people start telling you that they don't find this funny then your perception of them is going to be that they just don't have a sense of humour. After all, you don't _seriously_ want bad things to happen to women, you're just having a laugh, right?
My old friend Ed went to this debate in which a controversial comedian debated whether it was ok to make offensive jokes. Frankie Boyle used his moments on the debating stand to tell a series of increasingly unpleasant jokes - all of which got a massive laugh from the audience, except when they touched on a subject just a little too close to home. My friend found himself laughing at all sorts of appalling things, until the subject was (coincidentally) turned onto his own situation, at which point he found himself thinking "but that's not funny".
Because it's never funny when it's about you. It's only funny when it's about someone you don't care about.
Or, at the very least, if you can pretend that nobody you know is like that.
It's much easier when you live in a nice insular environment, where you only really know people like yourself, and you certainly only socialise with people just like you. Then you can bask in in-group/out-group socialisation to your heart's content.
Not to easy when you're on the internet, and people are likely to pop up at any moment and point out the flaws inherent in something you thought was innocent fun.
The question is - how do you deal with it when someone points it out? Do you have to let the flaws ruint it for you because they offend someone else? Do you have to argue that there's nothing wrong with the thing you love?
If you care (and nobody is going to make you) then some very useful hints and tips can be found here. The flow-chart at the end is particularly good.
I mean, if you're used to being able to make jokes about horrible things happening to women and then a group of people start telling you that they don't find this funny then your perception of them is going to be that they just don't have a sense of humour. After all, you don't _seriously_ want bad things to happen to women, you're just having a laugh, right?
My old friend Ed went to this debate in which a controversial comedian debated whether it was ok to make offensive jokes. Frankie Boyle used his moments on the debating stand to tell a series of increasingly unpleasant jokes - all of which got a massive laugh from the audience, except when they touched on a subject just a little too close to home. My friend found himself laughing at all sorts of appalling things, until the subject was (coincidentally) turned onto his own situation, at which point he found himself thinking "but that's not funny".
Because it's never funny when it's about you. It's only funny when it's about someone you don't care about.
Or, at the very least, if you can pretend that nobody you know is like that.
It's much easier when you live in a nice insular environment, where you only really know people like yourself, and you certainly only socialise with people just like you. Then you can bask in in-group/out-group socialisation to your heart's content.
Not to easy when you're on the internet, and people are likely to pop up at any moment and point out the flaws inherent in something you thought was innocent fun.
The question is - how do you deal with it when someone points it out? Do you have to let the flaws ruint it for you because they offend someone else? Do you have to argue that there's nothing wrong with the thing you love?
If you care (and nobody is going to make you) then some very useful hints and tips can be found here. The flow-chart at the end is particularly good.
no subject
Let's consider this a moment. It isn't just the subject matter or how offensive it is or isn't that makes a joke funny, it is the contruction, the timing and exaggeration of the joke that makes it funny. Sometimes you will find people laughing at a joke that even they know is close to the grain. Jimmy Carr says that his favourite sound in a gig is a laugh quickly followed by an ooooo sound because people have laughed at the joke without analysing it and then half a second later have had their conditioning to know that it is wrong to do so.
I just believe that jokes themselves are not harmful, just the way they are used. If I thought a joke would offend someone I was with, I wouldn't tell it because it wouldn't be my intention. However if I told a joke and someone listening in on another table said they were offended, I would tell them to stop listening in on our conversation. In the same way, I feel if a comedian is offensive to you on TV, you should change the channel. Brass Eye I feel is a great example of a subject matter people found offensive because they didn't get the context of the joke (it was ironically taking the piss out of media hysteria).
Basically, you shouldn't attribute a joke to malice which can just be attributed to what my flatmate would called "an enlightened sense of humour". I hope that explains it well enough.
no subject
I'm not saying "jokers are bigots".
I'm saying, "by making some kinds of joke, you let bigots of the hook - by contributing to a culture where that kind of joke is common, a bigot can also express their bigoted views and then cover by saying 'Only Joking!'".
no subject