andrewducker (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
andrewducker) wrote2003-01-23 06:26 pm
andrewducker) wrote2003-01-23 06:26 pm
Do you listen to Radiohead?
From here:
Do you listen to Radiohead? Do you define yourself by the music you listen to? Are you part of a subculture? Do you believe that the kid wearing the Atari shirt is more of an individual than the kid wearing the Tommy Hilfiger shirt? Have you talked about matters like this with your friends? Do you have any friends? Do you have any friends that would stick around if you listened to Britney Spears? Do you like Britney Spears? Do you like Radiohead? Do you think that Radiohead is "us" and that Britney Spears is "them"? Did you get sick of all those Amnesiac advertisements? Do you think that the concept of "us" and "them" actually exists? Does Thom Yorke?
Do you come up with new ideas on philosophical matter, or do you repeat other peoples ideas in new shapes and formats? Do you think that you're cool? Do you think that you're enlightened? Did you cry on September 11th? Do you think that America was asking for it? Do you wish there would be a draft so you could protest it like the hippies? Do you wish that marijuana was legal? Would you want to pass a joint to a guy who would only smoke it if it was?
Do you think that you're smarter than your average person? Do you think that you're average? Do you think that some people are more average than others? Do you think that most people are stupid? Do you think that stupid people can help being stupid? Do you think that ignorant people can help being ignorant? Are you ignorant? Are you ignorant towards your own ignorance? Do you value the opinion of the kid who worships Fight Club more than the kid who worships Titanic? Do you have opinions on other peoples opinions? Do you believe that there is a right and a wrong? What if the kid who worshiped Fight Club was wearing a Tommy Hilfiger shirt, and the kid who worshiped Titanic was wearing an Atari shirt? Would your opinions on their opinions now change?
Do you think that you're hip? Do you think that you're special? Do you think that you're in the 1-5%? What percentage of the population would you say thinks they're in the 1-5%? Are you part of society? Do you say the word "society" a lot? Is social commentary trendy? Is Britney Spears? Is Radiohead?
Is it right to assume that there is no right and wrong? Is the belief that everything is relative a relative belief? Is it possible to form a group of individuals? Is the jock with a passion for football worth talking to? Is the cop with a passion for arresting football players?
Do you live in your own reality? Do you have conversations about living in your own reality with other people? Are these people cool? Are they enlightened? Are they hip? Are they special? Are they in the 1-5%? Is this relative?
Is the opinion of Liberal #54701 more important than the opinion of Racist #41922? If we all have our own perspectives, how can the liberal's opinion be anymore important than that racist's? Are you racist? Are you racist towards racists? Do you judge the judgmental?
Are there any perspectives that are socially unacceptable? Is hate a perspective? Is sexual attraction to a 4 year old? Where to you draw the line? Have you drawn the line yet? Have you crossed it? Does it exist? Do you think that those who are sexually attracted to 4 years olds choose to be?
If there are so many socially unacceptable perspectives, can we truly claim to be free? Are we free? Is Britney Spears? Is Thom Yorke?
Are you a cyber kid? Are you emo? Are you punk? Are you a social commentator? Are you trendy? Do you fit in with those who don't fit in? Are you a DJ? Are you a free thinker? Is it possible to truly free your mind? What's on your mind? Do you mind when kids define themselves by the music they listen to? Is their music any of your business? Is another country's government any of America's business? Do you plan to start your own business? Do you plan to start your own subculture?
Is it cool to be cool? Is it cool to be enlightened? Is is cool to be hip? Is it cool to be special? Is it cool to be in the 1-5%? Do you think the 1-5% actually exists? Does Thom Yorke? Do you listen to Radiohead?
Do you listen to Radiohead? Do you define yourself by the music you listen to? Are you part of a subculture? Do you believe that the kid wearing the Atari shirt is more of an individual than the kid wearing the Tommy Hilfiger shirt? Have you talked about matters like this with your friends? Do you have any friends? Do you have any friends that would stick around if you listened to Britney Spears? Do you like Britney Spears? Do you like Radiohead? Do you think that Radiohead is "us" and that Britney Spears is "them"? Did you get sick of all those Amnesiac advertisements? Do you think that the concept of "us" and "them" actually exists? Does Thom Yorke?
Do you come up with new ideas on philosophical matter, or do you repeat other peoples ideas in new shapes and formats? Do you think that you're cool? Do you think that you're enlightened? Did you cry on September 11th? Do you think that America was asking for it? Do you wish there would be a draft so you could protest it like the hippies? Do you wish that marijuana was legal? Would you want to pass a joint to a guy who would only smoke it if it was?
Do you think that you're smarter than your average person? Do you think that you're average? Do you think that some people are more average than others? Do you think that most people are stupid? Do you think that stupid people can help being stupid? Do you think that ignorant people can help being ignorant? Are you ignorant? Are you ignorant towards your own ignorance? Do you value the opinion of the kid who worships Fight Club more than the kid who worships Titanic? Do you have opinions on other peoples opinions? Do you believe that there is a right and a wrong? What if the kid who worshiped Fight Club was wearing a Tommy Hilfiger shirt, and the kid who worshiped Titanic was wearing an Atari shirt? Would your opinions on their opinions now change?
Do you think that you're hip? Do you think that you're special? Do you think that you're in the 1-5%? What percentage of the population would you say thinks they're in the 1-5%? Are you part of society? Do you say the word "society" a lot? Is social commentary trendy? Is Britney Spears? Is Radiohead?
Is it right to assume that there is no right and wrong? Is the belief that everything is relative a relative belief? Is it possible to form a group of individuals? Is the jock with a passion for football worth talking to? Is the cop with a passion for arresting football players?
Do you live in your own reality? Do you have conversations about living in your own reality with other people? Are these people cool? Are they enlightened? Are they hip? Are they special? Are they in the 1-5%? Is this relative?
Is the opinion of Liberal #54701 more important than the opinion of Racist #41922? If we all have our own perspectives, how can the liberal's opinion be anymore important than that racist's? Are you racist? Are you racist towards racists? Do you judge the judgmental?
Are there any perspectives that are socially unacceptable? Is hate a perspective? Is sexual attraction to a 4 year old? Where to you draw the line? Have you drawn the line yet? Have you crossed it? Does it exist? Do you think that those who are sexually attracted to 4 years olds choose to be?
If there are so many socially unacceptable perspectives, can we truly claim to be free? Are we free? Is Britney Spears? Is Thom Yorke?
Are you a cyber kid? Are you emo? Are you punk? Are you a social commentator? Are you trendy? Do you fit in with those who don't fit in? Are you a DJ? Are you a free thinker? Is it possible to truly free your mind? What's on your mind? Do you mind when kids define themselves by the music they listen to? Is their music any of your business? Is another country's government any of America's business? Do you plan to start your own business? Do you plan to start your own subculture?
Is it cool to be cool? Is it cool to be enlightened? Is is cool to be hip? Is it cool to be special? Is it cool to be in the 1-5%? Do you think the 1-5% actually exists? Does Thom Yorke? Do you listen to Radiohead?
Re: Damn, too long for a comment, I'll edit.
2
Do you come up with new ideas on philosophical matter, or do you repeat other peoples ideas in new shapes and formats?
I read extensively, and try to form new ideas if I don't agree with any that I read.
Do you think that you're cool?
I think other people think I'm cool.
Do you think that you're enlightened?
I think I have achieved enlightenment after years of struggle.
Did you cry on September 11th?
Not that day, but the next day.
Do you think that America was asking for it?
American politicians and Oil Barons made specific decisions that led to the events leading to Sept 11. I believe they share part of the blame.
Do you wish there would be a draft so you could protest it like the hippies?
No, dear Lord, the draft terrifies me. But yes, I would protest it for all I was worth, and then move all of my friends and family to Canada.
Do you wish that marijuana was legal?
Yes, it would save billions in law enforcement and prison upkeep.
Would you want to pass a joint to a guy who would only smoke it if it was?
I can't blame anyone for not wanting to commit a crime. I personally have never smoked a joint, but then again, I'm an educator, and one drug conviction would sink my career.
Re: Damn, too long for a comment, I'll edit.
American politicians and Oil Barons made specific decisions that led to the events leading to Sept 11. I believe they share part of the blame."
Is it ever not possible to say "culture x is not to blame, some subset of members of culture x are to blame". Is a culture that does not take responsibility for its members and whose constituents treat themselves as individuals a true culture?
If a culture is best viewed as an environment that permits individuals to carry out certain actions and behave in a certain way and thus acts as the constraints of its constituents, then surely if some subset of the members of the culture of America are (in some way) to blame for the events of September 11th then America is (in some way) to blame for the events of September 11th.
Yes, I believe that deliberate inaction leading to an event is tantamount to deliberate action leading to an event. No, I don't suggest I'm not guilty of equivalant inaction in my day to day life. Yes, these are just points for discussion, not absolute testimony to my beliefs regarding the reasons for September 11th (or anything else for that matter).
Mike
Re: Damn, too long for a comment, I'll edit.
Is there any society anywhere that does not consist solely of individuals?
Is there really such a thing as society, or is it just shortcut for "a group of individuals that are geographically close and have similar backgrounds"?
Would you want to live in a culture that removed all individual choices in favour of centralised cultural decisions?
Re: Damn, too long for a comment, I'll edit.
Perhaps I should have said "whose constituents treat themselves _purely_ as individuals", i.e. if the individuals do not consider themselves a part of the culture internally, how can it be a culture when viewed externally?
"Is there really such a thing as society, or is it just shortcut for "a group of individuals that are geographically close and have similar backgrounds"?"
Apart from the fact that identifying a society in that way is good enough reason to give it a name and consider it a thing in the world (words, generally, being the description of phenomenon), I'd also say that a culture needs to be something that operates differently as a whole and in relation to itself, at the level of the individual, than how the individuals would operate separately. Maybe due to familiarity, maybe due to more emotive forces, maybe out of pure survival instinct, but certainly in a way that defines the society as a unit, rather than a set of sub-units.
Living organisms can be described as Autopoietic Unities or "Autonomous entities maintained as a consequence of their own productions". I think this is useful language and criteria to describe societies and cultures: as entities that maintain themselves under perturbation from external forces due to their own mechanisms of existence. It is my suggestion that groups of individuals don't do this, wheras cultures do.
"Would you want to live in a culture that removed all individual choices in favour of centralised cultural decisions?"
I merely said "acts as the constraints of its constituents" not remove all individual choice, but constrain choice to the limits of the society.
Re: Damn, too long for a comment, I'll edit.
What you have then is a demographic, I suspect :->
But you're dealing in absolutes. I feel like I'm partially part of society. I'm glad there is society because it does a lot of good and life would be a lot harder without its boundaries, but it has boundaries I disagree with and boundaries I ignore. And it's also a fairly fluid thing, whenever someone attempts to define Britishness (or even Englishness) it never sounds like more than 2% of the population.
I merely said "acts as the constraints of its constituents" not remove all individual choice, but constrain choice to the limits of the society.
I think you're on to something there. If there are no constraints and punishments for violating those constraints, then it's not a society. A society needs to have advantages for being inside, a clear demarcation of membership and punishments/removal for violating its tenets. I'd say that modern British society was heading in the direction of being less of a society in that way. I'd also argue that's a good thing, but that's me.