Offensiveness (request for comments)

[andrewducker]

I posted an entry earlier today with this LJ Icon.

It's not a nice LJ icon.

It's clearly offensive.

In fact the keyword for this icon is Offensive.

And prynne asked me if I could be convinced to delete it. Her reason being that it contains the word "retarded", and she objects to that word (link now public).

I don't disagree that it's an offensive word. I'd certainly never use it in normal conversation.

But then I'd never say any of the things in the icon. It's there, largely, as a list of things _I_ find offensive.

And I think, myself, that it serves a purpose of saying that "Andrew finds all of these statements offensive, and wouldn't care to hear them from people around him."

In particular, it says "Goths are Retarded", which I _clearly_ can't mean, as I have numerous friends who are, or have been goths, and I've seen the Sisters of Mercy live three times, and have a large collection of black t-shirts. Nobody that knows me could in any way think I mean it as something other than "Here are things that highlight idiots when they say them."

But it's not necessarily obvious from the icon. You could read it as "Here are things Andy believes." if you didn't know me very well. You could more easily read it as "Here are things Andy finds amusing."

Knowing the internet like I do, I know that it's very easy not to recognise irony ("Saying one thing and meaning something quite different"). Many's the time I've made a comment intended to be taking as silliness and had it taken seriously.

So should I take it down? Should I depend on my audience to realise what it means?

Comments

[andrewducker]

Comments like that could push people

I tend to be dubious about that kind of thing. If it _has_ affected your wife in such a way, please let me know at once. But I think that assuming that people are affected by things that much is falling into the same trap as people who want to ban GTA because it makes people into mass-murderers (or is offensive to people whose lost family/friends to gang shootings).

Not, thinking about it, that your wife reads my journal. If the only thing preventing her from doing so is the icon, I'd be open for discussion about that. In much the same way that I'd let someone know if the only thing stopping me reading their journal was a spider icon. Although in that case I'd just use AdBlock.

I've yet to hear from anyone saying "I am a goth, and I'm offended." - it's all been people being upset on other people's behalf. (That's a lie - it's mostly been people saying "Keep it!", but of the people against it...).

[randomchris.livejournal.com]

I know my wife well enough to know that she'd be quite likely to find that line upsetting. No, she doesn't read your journal, but she does sometimes read over my shoulder. (And I could ask her if that line would upset her, but I'd rather not, as it probably would.)

Freedom of speech is great, but there are some things that just don't need to be said. I'm not going to try to stop you saying them, but I will say that I think this icon lowers the intellectual tone of your journal somewhat. Maybe that's more likely to persuade you :)

[andrewducker]

If it was actively, and personally upsetting someone on my friends list, then I'd be up for having a discussion with them about it, and seeing how I felt about it after that.

Other than that, I think I'm going to stick with it for now (although I'll be careful about what posts it turns up attached to).

Might I suggest you adblock it?

[cangetmad.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I still think the context makes a difference: if you'd said "lesbians just need to meet the right man" or, rather more tastelesly "you only get raped if you're asking for it", it would still be in a context where it was clear you disagreed with the statement and I would, frankly, be able to deal with it. Some people have had such severe (or, I suppose, recent) trauma that seeing the word "rape" will cause a meltdown, but that is an awful fact for which other individuals are not responsible, in the same way as I'm not responsible for dealing with your arachnophobia. Accommodating everyone's potential fears and trauma triggers "just in case" would make speech, let alone free speech, pretty much impossible.

For people who know who I am and what my history is, I will judge them as arseholes whom I don't wish to associate with if they choose to push certain buttons knowing I'm part of their audience. But that's action for me to take.