andrewducker: (witch)
[personal profile] andrewducker
Overe here you will be able to see the announcement by the leader of the Scottish Lib Dems that Alistair Carmichael realises he has been a very naughty boy, and that we should give him a second chance.

And you'll be able to see the top response:
Not much else that can be done. The SNP would most likely win any by-election. It’s a choice of standing behind Alistair or losing another MP. Life just gets better for the LibDems.
However, you won't be able to see _my_ reply to that. Because it's sitting in moderation despite other, later, replies appearing just fine:
Of course there's more that could be done. He could be tried, under party rules, with bringing the party into disrepute.

And then we could lose the by-election.

And then we could move on and start fighting the battle to win some Scottish seats back without being tainted constantly with backing our MPs, even when they cost the taxpayer millions through lies, because of short term opportunism.

If he'd stood up before the election and admitted that he'd done it, that would be a different matter - he could have resigned his role, and stood for the seat legitimately. But he lied, and continued to lie, and stood while lying.

Him remaining in his seat is going to make it harder for every activist trying to win seats in 2016 in Holyrood, and 2020 in Westminster.

The Lib Dems cannot win without being seen to care about honesty and decency. We _cannot_ be seen as the party of political tricks and lies.
But apparently saying such obvious truths is not considered palatable by whoever is manning the moderation queue today*.

I _really_ want to be able to support the Lib Dems. More than that, when I have more energy I'd like to be out there working with them trying to make a difference. But they're making it really hard for me.

Over on [personal profile] miss_s_b's "Where Next" post two weeks ago I said:
I want a Lib-Dem party who are going to stand up for Liberal things, even in a coalition. Who aren't going to vote for DRIP, no matter what. Who are going to _think_ about things like the Bedroom Tax before voting it through, and realise the knock-on effects. Who will publicly, and loudly, stand up for disabled people, even if they're in coalition with people who are cutting their benefits. _Particularly_ when they are in a coalition with them. I want an end to "cabinet responsibility".

Go in, publicly make agreements, stand by those agreements, but don't then add on bits which are illiberal and justify them with "They'd be even worse without us" - make the people who believe in unpleasant things vote for the unpleasant things, if that means making Labour and Conservatives gang up on us then that's great - because it means people can see what we sodding well stand for.

And what I want us to stand for is reform. There's nothing on the front page of the manifesto, or in our "red lines" that made me think "Yes, this is a party I will vote for, no matter what." It was (largely) good stuff, but it didn't grab me. And if the Lib Dems want my support, and the support of other liberal, democratic people then their big selling point shouldn't be "We'll cut less than X" or "Spend more than Y" - it should be "We'll make the other fuckers more liberal, more democratic, and hold the bastards to account."
And I stand by that. That's the party that they were sold to me as. And I'm still holding out hope that, given new leadership who aren't managerial centralists, that's the party they can be. But right now it's slipping away at fairly high speed.

*It's now vanished from the moderation queue too. Huzzah for open and robust discussion.

Date: 2015-05-24 04:10 pm (UTC)
gominokouhai: (Default)
From: [personal profile] gominokouhai
> We _cannot_ be seen as the party of political tricks and lies

"the party", singular, heh, heh.

Which is the problem. The last five years have seen the gradual (with some sudden bursts) and total erosion of the lib dems' moral high ground---and now you're just as bad as all the rest of them. You've lost your USP, which was that you were actually decent human beings. Nobody votes Labour, or SNP, to get rid of the Lib Dems, but there's no coherent reason to vote /for/ you any more.

You face the same problem that Ukip has with its constant, unending stream of horrendous racists, each of which is "just one bad apple" and is dealt with individually. It doesn't help. The public is aware that if a barrel is full of bad apples, it's a pretty fucking terrible barrel. It's going to take a lot more to fix that than hanging Carmichael's arse out to dry, although personally I'd like to see him strung up.

Date: 2015-05-30 01:06 pm (UTC)
matgb: Artwork of 19th century upper class anarchist, text: MatGB (Default)
From: [personal profile] matgb
I'm wondering if in the case of some Scottish LDs there isn't a sort of bunker mentality forming, especially around the SNP—a lot of people, especially Caron, have been subject to some very vicious nastiness from some elements within the SNP/cybernat support base, and while the SNP leadership are all "fresh brush new broom clean things up" they're known to be a bunch of dishonest liars.

The whole "it cost £1.4 million to investigate" thing is a case in point there, did it bollocks, the only source for that claim is a deleted tweet from an MP, no idea which party, it didn't cost anything like that amount, and most of the notional cost would've been a couple civil servants whose job it is, partially, to investigate supposed impropriety, so it was just another item on the todo list, leak enquiries happen regularly, they're not free but they don't, in themselves, cost millions.

I also dislike the "lied to save his seat" line, that's palpably false, he might've lied to save his Govt job but whether he was the leaker or not wouldn't have bothered most local voters "our MP told the newspapers something that was a Govt secret but he thought was true" isn't something known to lose you votes that often. He'd have had to resign the Govt job, but that would've been it, and that wouldn't have lasted.

I hate the way the party's handled this, there should be a proper investigation, which could lead to his suspension, but I also know the SNP are massively overselling it, he was one of the leading No campaigners and cost them the referendum, etc, so I suspect a lot of it is false outrage trumped up by people that know it wasn't that major a thing really.

I dunno, I really want the party to be the clean hands new broom sort the mess out party, but in Scottish politics right now, it appears they're stuck in the "shit, the lying SNP bastards are getting away with lying and we're not" mentality, that'll take some work to shift.

(and I gave up working on LDV years ago, they were told they had to clean up their comments box so went censorship mad, the complete opposite of what I was doing in the forums, they seem to think the best way to deal with problem posts is to delete them completely before they go live, which just doesn't work)

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